UCGIS Virtual Seminar - Fall 1998 [Back][Refresh][Options][Search] Welcome to GIS & Society [Edit*][Delete*] [Image] GIS & Society Dawn Wright 10/23/98 [Image] White Paper Robert McMaster 10/25/98 [Image] Themes Ronald William Ward 10/26/98 [Image] [Image] techies and intellectuals Bill Moseley 10/26/98 [Image] [Image] Money is everything? Ronald William Ward 10/27/98 [Image] [Image] academia vs commercial Deana Pennington 10/27/98 [Image] [Image] Technology does not have Bill Moseley 10/27/98 a mind of its own [Image] [Image] Academic technology? Jason Seifert 10/27/98 [Image] [Image] case in point Ronald William Ward 10/30/98 [Image] [Image] short vs long Deana Pennington 10/27/98 [Image] [Image] re: short versus Erik Shepard 10/28/98 long term [Image] [Image] the race is on. Wilmot Greene 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] Ditto Kurt L. Johnson 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] tech school Deana Pennington 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] Re: Academia vs Byong-Woon Jun 10/28/98 Commercial [Image] [Image] Is UCGIS a perfect example Byong-Woon Jun 10/28/98 of intellectuals? [Image] [Image] Hold your grenades Kurt L. Johnson 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] GIS scientists Deana Pennington 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] Jun: I would disagree that Bill Moseley 10/29/98 all GIS types are techies. Fo... [Image] Ethics? Ronald William Ward 10/26/98 [Image] [Image] Well, if I put on my devious Bill Moseley 10/26/98 thinking cap, what if you used ... [Image] [Image] thinking cap Ronald William Ward 10/27/98 [Image] [Image] Control the use of GIS? Anne Vendeloekke 10/28/98 Olsen [Image] [Image] I believe there is a need to Jay Raiford 10/28/98 have a code of conduct for prof... [Image] [Image] The Why Ronald William Ward 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] GIS at the VoTech vs. Bill Moseley 10/28/98 University [Image] [Image] $ Ronald William Ward 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] The thread is knitting a Wilmot Greene 10/28/98 sock [Image] [Image] GIS at the VoTech vs. Bill Moseley 10/28/98 University [Image] [Image] Ethical inconsistency in GIS Byong-Woon Jun 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] Motive Ronald William Ward 10/30/98 [Image] History, Technology and GIS Bill Moseley 10/26/98 [Image] [Image] interdisciplinary Ronald William Ward 10/27/98 [Image] [Image] speaking of Kirsten McDade 11/01/98 interdisciplinary... [Image] [Image] excellent point! Ronald William Ward 11/02/98 [Image] [Image] > This GIS > and society Dawn Wright 11/02/98 thing is rather the sam... [Image] [Image] domo origato (sp.) Ronald William Ward 11/03/98 [Image] Technical Limitations/Liabilities James Nichols 10/27/98 [Image] Need for an Ethical Code of Conduct? larissa scott 10/27/98 [Image] [Image] Ethical Conduct Dawn Wright 10/27/98 [Image] [Image] thoughts Ronald William Ward 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] back to GIS Police Kurt L. Johnson 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] Kurt, I think you give a Peter Henschel 10/29/98 good statement in your last para... [Image] [Image] ethical codes are already in Jason Seifert 10/28/98 place [Image] [Image] where are they? Ronald William Ward 10/29/98 [Image] [Image] Right here Jason Seifert 10/30/98 [Image] [Image] comments Ronald William Ward 11/02/98 [Image] [Image] re: comments Jason Seifert 11/03/98 [Image] [Image] of course! Ronald William Ward 11/05/98 [Image] [Image] more GIS and ethics Molly McCormick 11/05/98 [Image] Marginalization Ronald William Ward 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] Marginalization Bill Moseley 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] Mutually beneficial Ronald William Ward 10/28/98 [Image] short vs long term thinking chris watson 10/28/98 [Image] Public Participation Anne Vendeloekke 10/28/98 Olsen [Image] [Image] Public Participation GIS Aaron Timbo 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] House hunting Jay Raiford 10/29/98 [Image] [Image] House hunting Jay Raiford 10/29/98 [Image] [Image] House hunting Jay Raiford 10/29/98 [Image] [Image] House hunting Jay Raiford 10/29/98 [Image] Ethics of GIS Questionnaire Ronald William Ward 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] PLEASE TAKE THE TIME! Ronald William Ward 10/30/98 [Image] [Image] questionnaire Deana Pennington 10/30/98 [Image] [Image] Re: Questionnaire Byong-Woon Jun 11/05/98 [Image] [Image] survey Erik Shepard 11/08/98 [Image] [Image] Survey Response Bill Moseley 11/10/98 [Image] [Image] Ethics of GIS Questionnaire Gerry Daumiller 11/11/98 [Image] [Image] questionnaire J. David Fuss 11/16/98 [Image] Do we want to know? Blaine Hackett 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] connections Ronald William Ward 10/29/98 [Image] GIS as a new media for communication Byong-Woon Jun 10/28/98 [Image] [Image] The discussions this week have Robert McMaster 10/29/98 been quite thought-provoking ... [Image] Sorry, program said it wasn't posting! Jay Raiford 10/29/98 [Image] [Image] yah...this seems to be a Ronald William Ward 10/30/98 recurring problem! [Image] GIS and Society II Robert McMaster 10/30/98 [Image] Differing access to Geographic James Nichols 11/05/98 Information [Image] RE: Ethics Questionnaire Larissa Scott 11/15/98 [Image] Post new message in this thread ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 23, 1998 10:53 PM Author: Dawn Wright (dawn@dusk.geo.orst.edu) Subject: GIS & Society This forum to be hosted by Bob McMaster of the University of Minnesota. The discussion will begin this Monday, Oct. 26th. Fasten your seat belts!! (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2237) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 25, 1998 09:07 AM Author: Robert McMaster (mcmaster@atlas.socsci.umn.edu) Subject: White Paper Dear Virtual Seminar Participants: As Dawn mentioned, I will be leading the effort on GIS and Society for the next two weeks, at which time representatives of our seminar will convene at the GIS/LIS in Fort Worth for the panel. My own interests in the area of GIS and Society date back to the mid-1980s, when I began work in the area of environmental risk assessment using GIS to evaluate the impact of hazardous materials on various geodemographic groups. I attended the Friday Harbor GIS & Society meeting back in November of 1993, and Minnesota hosted the NCGIA I-19 Specialist Meeting on GIS and Society in March of 1995. I also drafted the first UCGIS white paper on GIS & Society in June 1996 with assistance from Greg Elmes, Ben Niemann, and Earl Epstein. The first version still exists on the UCGIS Web site at Ohio State if you would like to look at the earlier attempt to fuse together this literature. The first task is to read the white paper at the following web site: http://www.geog.umn.edu/umucgis/research_priorities/GISOCIET.html The lead author on this version of the white paper was Eric Sheppard, a colleague of mine at the University of Minnesota. However, you should know that another white paper, drafted by Ben Neimann, Earl Epstein, and David Tulloch was also drafted and parts presented at the Annual Assembly in Park City. The emphasis on the second white paper was more on institutional issues. As you realize we are now in the process of revising the white papers based on discussions at Park City Annual Assembly. Greg Elmes, a faculty member at West Virgina, has created a first draft of this revised white paper that attempts to bring together the two previous efforts. I will post this new white paper at the University of Minnesota site by mid-week. It will be interesting to compare the two versions. Finally, as we are currently in the process of converting the white papers into book chapters for a book entitled, The Research Agenda of the UCGIS, this interactive discussion will be passed along to the chapter co-authors--Greg and Eric. I look forward to our discussions over the next few weeks and meeting many of you in Texas. From the north, Bob (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2239) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 26, 1998 08:17 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Themes Important themes in the UCGIS White Paper (which are in many respects refined from Sheppard, E. 1995. "GIS and Society: Toward a Research Agenda." Cartography and Geographic Information Systems, 22(1)) are the ways in which narrowly defined goals of GIS practitioners influence society, and how the broader goals of the societies in which GIS were developed influence ongoing uses of GIS. In this regard Sheppard mentions "images of a growing split between 'techies' and 'intellectuals' in contemporary geography, with each group carrying heroic images of itself and cruel caricatures of the other..." He goes on to argue that both groups have something to learn from each other. Does this split exist? If so, how do the 'priority areas for research' in the White Paper address the split: Which research priorities have the greatest potential to foster a beneficial relationship between the 'techies' and 'intellectuals;' which research priorities could lead to a widening of the gap? food for thought, Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2253) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 26, 1998 12:57 PM Author: Bill Moseley (wmoseley@uga.edu) Subject: techies and intellectuals Just as there has been tension in geography between physical and human geographers, there has probably been a long standing tension between applied (aka your techies) and more theoretical geographers (aka your intellectuals). The difference now, perhaps, is that the commercial significance of GIS gives the "techies" considerably more power than in the past. So yes, I think this split does exist, although you have a number of "GIS intellectuals" who have a foot in each world. The question for me is whether or not purely commercial (short term) thinking will guide the future of GIS, a longer term "intellectual" perspective, or some hybrid. UCGIS is a perfect example of intellectuals, rather than purely commercial interests, trying to influence the development of the technology. Then again, intellectuals may simply be occupying the ground that commercial interests have chosen to ignore. If the later is the case, then intellectuals (out in front and thinking about the longer term (but who may be influenced by commercial interests)) set the general course of the technology and then commercial, short-term interests take this and adapt it to their short-term objectives. Cheers, Bill (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2258) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 27, 1998 07:53 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Money is everything? Bill, "The question for me is whether or not purely commercial (short term) thinking will guide the future of GIS, a longer term "intellectual" perspective, or some hybrid. UCGIS is a perfect example of intellectuals, rather than purely commercial interests, trying to influence the development of the technology." I tend to think we'll see some of both. This is a profit driven society, so any discussion of GIS and society is going to be partly centered around money. We've seen some of the participants in the virtual seminar write in these terms (money is everything), most of the students taking those entry-level GIS courses are in there to learn the software and make money from the knowledge, and many 'intellectuals' researching GIS can't do a thing without federal grant money. The big software companies are in it for the money. The info generated by GIS is what brings in the profits, and the info is commodified because of it. Our economics are based on growth/profits, and GIS cannot escape the fact that profits in the short-term are its main reason for existance. This is where the intellectuals come in. GIS SHOULD serve society in some higher manner than just generating profits - yet society dictates that an activity which doesn't generate profits is a waste of time. Academics know better (and how many of us are in this for the money?). Does a GIS used to coordinate famine relief generate profits? It shouldn't matter because it's morally right to use a GIS in this way - but who's going to do it? Not big business, I'll tell you that! But still, an academic working on a famine relief GIS cannot work outside the greedy framework of society, and to get funding for such a thing, would have to talk about reducing the costs of famine relief and foreign aid in the long-term, thus providing societal justification for spending money. ...and so it goes - one way or another, money leaks into every nook and crany of GIS and society. $$$$$$$$$$ Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2284) ------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 27, 1998 08:55 AM Author: Deana Pennington (penningtond@geo.orst.edu) Subject: academia vs commercial Ideally, it would be great if academia/intellectuals could lead the long term direction of GIS. I am concerned, however, about the rate at which technology changes versus the rate at which academia is able to move. For instance, in Jan 1997, Bill Gates, in a statement made during an annual convention, first commented on his vision for the future of Intranet and internet technologies. The direction was bold, and was entirely different that the localized applications that everyone was using. Within 2 weeks, my company had completely shifted gears. Six months later, our newest release was an Intranet version. The point is that commercial technology responds very rapidly to market driven forces. Although typically these are short term decisions, in this case, it was also a major long term change. And it was driven by Bill Gates. With the normal academic process of background research, proposals, waiting for funding and research time, I am concerned that technology will continue to change too fast for academia to stay in front. Deana (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2288) -------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: October 27, 1998 01:55 PM Author: Bill Moseley (wmoseley@uga.edu) Subject: Technology does not have a mind of its own Deanna: I quote your statement: "Within 2 weeks, my company had completely shifted gears. Six months later, our newest release was an Intranet version. The point is that commercial technology responds very rapidly to market driven forces... I am concerned that technology will continue to change too fast for academia to stay in front." You may not agree with me, but I think the market is incapable of thinking longer term. It's hard to outpace private interests in the short-term (which you demonstrate in your example) but markets have difficulty thinking beyond 5 yrs because the discounted profits are negligible. Technology may be changing too fast for academia in the short-term but not in the long term. Academics can shape the future of the technology through basic research (where there is little profit motive). This is important because I do not believe technology has a mind of its own. It may enhance our capabilities, but people create it and use it. For example, the internet is largely free today due to the vision of early pioneers (it would be quite different if business had created the technology). This is why it is so important for GIS intellectuals to grasp GIS and Society issues. They are going to have an impact and they should be cognizant of this when making decisions. Cheers, Bill (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2308) --------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: October 27, 1998 03:57 PM Author: Jason Seifert (seifert@nws.gov) Subject: Academic technology? Bill, I agree with your statement: "Technology may be changing too fast for academia in the short-term but not in the long term." There seems to be an assumption that GIS is a new concept. Technology moves forward, yet the concepts at the root of geographic information systems aren't nearly so dynamic. There is a movement towards thinking of GIS as a technological domain. While many commercial applications of GIS are technologically innovative, many useful analyses are possible in a "low-tech" environment. Does academia suffer from a type of "tech envy"? I don't think that academia is well served by attempting to guide technology. I think that efforts at guiding research initiatives and teaching proper use of spatial data are an important focus for academic institutions. Jason (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2314) ---------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*] [Move*][Delete*] Date: October 30, 1998 06:41 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: case in point Jason, in reply to your posting, and to the observations made by Bill: I think a case in point regarding your observations on short-term (private) and long-term (academic)interests would be this...who are the people running the show at GIS software companies and GIS analysis firms? This is where the short-term and the long-term mesh a bit. The people directing software development and GIS analysis consultation are people with graduate degrees. This might be why we see the division between short-term directions in the private sector and long-term directions in academics - the graduates working in the private sector know full well where the long-term research is being done. In this way the private and academic sectors compliment one another. Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2427) --------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: October 27, 1998 10:46 PM Author: Deana Pennington (penningtond@geo.orst.edu) Subject: short vs long I'm sorry, I probably didn't explain myself very well! The rapid change to Intranet technology was a small piece of a long term change, from localized computing to distributed computing. Was the switch to distributed computing propelled by academia, or by the commercial sector? I guess if you go back far enough, the seeds of it were planted by academia with the early internet. Yet certainly commercial forces have had just as much impact on it, and the rate at which it is changing is currently being propelled by market forces. Basically, I really don't agree with the discussion that long term trends are decided by academia, and commercial only thinks short term. I think that what we are talking about are innovators; those who are able to come up with new concepts, and have the ability to see them through. I think history shows that innovators come from both academia and private sectors (not to mention the occasional garage). However, the above applies primarily to the technological side of things. Broad geographic concepts, spatial analysis, those kinds of things are driven by academia, at least for the time being. My concern is that as "digital earth" catches on in the commercial sector, those basic concepts will be applied by persons for commercial reasons, probably inappropriately, but in time frames that will be difficult for academia to respond to. Deana (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2321) ---------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*] [Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 05:46 AM Author: Erik Shepard (shepard@uga.edu) Subject: re: short versus long term I agree with Deana. I see the same thing here at ITOS - even though we are a branch of UGA, we are not doing basic research but rather contract work. The changes we have gone through in terms of technological shifts are staggering. This doesn't mean that I don't think that academia *can* keep up, just that it won't - unless this change is at the core of a particular research project. Erik (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2324) ----------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply] [Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 06:38 AM Author: Wilmot Greene (mot@uga.edu) Subject: the race is on. This discussion of academia vs. technology participating in a race makes me think of our department here at UGA. GIS courses and instructors are often stigmatized as "theoretical" or "software based". To me, it seems as though academia used to function by giving students the tools necessary to develop new technologies. Now schools are lucky just to teach students enough about current technology so that those students can use software packages. Most students desire practical training on specific platforms so that they have "marketable skills". It almost seems as the line between university and tech school is being blurred. I personally think this is a two edged sword, 1. We need to teach practical examples so that students understand the current uses of technology. 2. We need to teach theoretically so that students can further those technologies. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2328) ------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply] [Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 07:23 AM Author: Kurt L. Johnson (Kurtljohnson@worldnet.att.net) Subject: Ditto Very succinctly stated. Applause, Applause (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2334) ------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply] [Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 09:13 AM Author: Deana Pennington (penningtond@geo.orst.edu) Subject: tech school Excellant observation! Yet, not entirely new, and not specific to geography. There has always been a distinction between preparing a student to be able to function in society versus preparing a student to think critically and theoretically. It's just that the distinction used to occur at the high school level, as some students were "prepped" for college and theoretical training. As society has become more sophisticated, the level of necessary training has increased, in this case in technology. A undergraduate degree is now the bare minimum required to get a decent job, yet many (maybe even most) of those jobs don't require theoretical training. Perhaps it is appropriate for undergraduate degrees to evolve into more of a tech degree, with the knowledge that those more academically and critically oriented will have to go to graduate school to get the level of background that they need for more theoretical jobs. This has certainly been the case in the sciences for a number of years now. And, of those going to grad school, a substantial number will still end up in functional jobs, yet theoretical training will make or break their long term career opportunities. I worked as a petroleum geologist in the 1980's, when geologists were in high demand and schools were cranking them out. It was easy to distinguish between those who were technically trained in petroleum specific schools, and those who were theoretically trained. The tech-trained jumped in and were immediately productive, but the theoretically trained contributed far more in the long term. Deana (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2351) -------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 11:30 AM Author: Byong-Woon Jun (bwjun@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Re: Academia vs Commercial The discussion for me seems that it's similar to the question in the previous white paper: "Who drives GIS's direction for the future?". Again, I think refreshing the history of GIS gives us a good insight into who drive the short-term and long-term trends of GIS. As you know, several stages of evolution of GIS can be defined: Pilot GIS, Departmental GIS, Enterprise GIS, and Social GIS. These overlap in time and occur at different moments in differents parts of the world. In each stage, the role of organizations and individuals were different. The pilot GIS, the first or pioneering stage, ranged from the early 1960s to about 1975. In this stage, professional individual personalities were of critical importance in determing what was achieved. The departmental GIS, the second stage, ranged approximately from 1973 to the early 1980s. This stage witnessed a regularization of experiment and practice fostered by national agencies, and continuation of local experiment and action untrammelled. The enterprise GIS, the third stage, ranged from about 1982 to the late 1980s. This stage was that of commercial dominance. The social GIS, the fourth and current stage, is one of user dominace. This stage has been facilitated by competition among vendors, embroyonic standardization on open systems and increasing agreement on the user's perception of what a GIS should do and look like. I think that academia, users, new information technologies, and commercial vendors are driving the short-term and long-term trends of GIS. It's about time for society to drive the trends of GIS. Jun (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2360) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 07:45 AM Author: Byong-Woon Jun (bwjun@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Is UCGIS a perfect example of intellectuals? I don't think UCGIS is a perfect example of intellectuals. I would argue that UCGIS is made up of techies and intellectuals. According to what Dr. Sheppard mentioned in his article "GIS and Society: Towards a Research Agenda", techies refer to GIS scientists, not commercial interests while intellectuals mean social theorists. Is NCGIA an example of intellectuals or techies? Jun (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2339) ------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 09:04 AM Author: Kurt L. Johnson (Kurtljohnson@worldnet.att.net) Subject: Hold your grenades Jun is right. GIS is not strictly comprised of intellectuals or techie- scientists. GIS has the greatest potential when both fulfill their niche. In order to solve many of the problems associated with previous topics, ie. spatial analysis. geo-representation, dist. computing, expertise from both groups will need to be utilized. It does not seem beneficial to analyze the other's assumed intentions. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2350) -------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 09:44 AM Author: Deana Pennington (penningtond@geo.orst.edu) Subject: GIS scientists This is true! And GIS scientists can be found in both the public and private sectors. The question is, how can we marshall all of these forces, with different short and long term objectives, to collectively take GIS in a direction that will be the most beneficial to society in the long term, and will minimize any potential abuses or socioeconomic imbalances? It's one thing to have a small, interdisciplinary team attack a problem. It's another to try to direct an entire society! Especially when so many variables can have a huge impact on the direction society takes. I'm not only referring to market forces, but the occasional charismatic personality (like Hitler), who can take a large part of society by storm and have an overnight impact. This goes back to the discussion in another thread about misuses of GIS. I think it could definitely be misused in serious ways by someone who's intentions are not money, but rather, power. UCGIS is definitely a step in the right direction, bringing together scientists from many different disciplines. Hopefully, the research that comes from this group (and others like it) will be strong enough, and timely enough, to provide a basis for governmental policy BEFORE commercial forces sweep spatial technology in directions that are not well thought out! But it will be difficult for anyone, regardless of their academic prowess, to control a "GIS-Hitler" who arises! Deana (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2353) ------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 29, 1998 01:22 PM Author: Bill Moseley (wmoseley@uga.edu) Jun: I would disagree that all GIS types are techies. For me, GIS techies are more closely tied into the technology and the detail of application. GIS intellectuals or theorists, on the other hand, take a broader, more conceptual perpective. Bill (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2408) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 26, 1998 08:30 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Ethics? A little self reflection here folks: Not in terms of legalities, because once an action or activity has been deemed illegal (in most cases) it can be generally agreed that society has decided the action or activity is wrong, but in terms of ethics - are there uses of GIS which are wrong? Question: Do we need an ethical code of conduct governing GIS use? Kazi nyingi, Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2254) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 26, 1998 01:37 PM Author: Bill Moseley (wmoseley@uga.edu) Well, if I put on my devious thinking cap, what if you used GIS to locate a liquor store, gun shop, or lottery ticket sales location (based on a comprehensive, geo-referenced, dataset of consumer buying habits)? Its legal but, some might argue, its not in society's best interest. Cheers, Bill (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2261) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 27, 1998 08:07 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: thinking cap Bill, Your example is exactly what I'm alking about. Unethical use of GIS is actually a lot more pervasive than any of us might imagine. A former student in this department is now working on military GIS applications - off the record he has told me that much of what he is doing in this GIS is 'killing people more efficiently.' The idea of it might be shocking, but there you go - it's out there! The example you give is great, and I wonder if some consulting firm somewhere has already done that. From an intellectual standpoint (and a point of view cartainly not driven by money), the reverse case would be interesting. I live in a minority neighborhood here in Athens, and it's hard not to notice how many lotto tickets are sold at the petrol station on the corner of my road. A GIS showing the distribution of lotto ticket sales correlated with some social demographics would be interesting. I suspect we might conclude that the Hope Scholarship is not paid for by lotto ticket sales so much as it is paid for by taxing low income, minority neighborhoods. show me the money, Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2286) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 09:17 AM Author: Anne Vendeloekke Olsen (asvenge@hotmail.com) Subject: Control the use of GIS? What if you used GIS to locate a gunshop, and then on that basis, chose to live in an area with the least gunshops as possible! I don't think it is possible to control what GIS is used for, and which use is good or bad for the society. It all depends on the eyes who create the map. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2352) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 05:47 AM Author: Jay Raiford (jraifor@lsu.edu) I believe there is a need to have a code of conduct for professionals in all fields. I do not believe this code can be blanketed to all users but should be for professionals only. How do we, as students and professionals, feel about the free education we are giving inexperienced GIS users throught the various listservs, (ArcView-L, ESRI-L, GIS-L)? Are we helping create a problem or is it our chance to make a positive impact on new users? Should we just answer questions or try to show them the "why" to there question? (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2325) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 06:31 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: The Why There are a great many pressures in the professional world. Perhaps the greatest pressure of all is to pay the bills. If you try to explain 'the why' to somebody who merely wants to profit from the information, you might be wasting your breath. So then, an ethical code of conduct might be for only those who are ethical in the first place, and unethical GIS users will continue to spit with disdain toward the ethical high-ground. You can lead horses to water, but you can't make them drink, right. Well, I believe an ethical code of conduct in any profession assumes as much - the real purpose is to try to make those horses thirsty so they'll drink on their own. So no - if inexperienced GIS users want the information, we can provide access to the information for a price....and that price is listening to 'the why.' Our faculty rep here at UGA, Lynne Usery, takes this position I think. A lot of people take his Intro to GIS course, thinking that they're just going to learn how to manipulate the software. Lynne requires that students learn the theory behind using the software. A few people get dry in the mouth by the end of that course. Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2327) ------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 07:24 AM Author: Bill Moseley (wmoseley@uga.edu) Subject: GIS at the VoTech vs. University I wanted to reiterate a few of Ron's points and change the emphasis slightly. I would argue that if you just want to learn GIS to turn a buck then you should go down the street and take your courses at the VoTech. To me, learning about GIS in a university department implies that you will be learning about broader theoretical and ethical issues as well. Cheers, Bill (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2335) -------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 08:28 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: $ Society, well, the market, sets wages. The market decides that Michael Jordan is worth millions a game because of the amount of money/profit/growth generated by his performance. Society will pay to see the man, and buy the fancy shoes he pushes, so the market merely takes its queue from society's demand. This is why school teachers, although arguably providing a much more valuable service to society than Mr. Jordan, do not make millions a year....it's part of the short-term approach to things. It's a good thing we don't see this approach in terms of vocational education and university education. In this case, for once, those who want GIS to turn a buck, and so go to the votech, are paid accordingly. get out that digitizer, Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2341) -------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 12:42 PM Author: Wilmot Greene (mot@uga.edu) Subject: The thread is knitting a sock Bill, Check out "the race is on" comment (above) the thread is knitting a sock! Wilmot (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2364) ------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 07:29 AM Author: Bill Moseley (wmoseley@uga.edu) Subject: GIS at the VoTech vs. University (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2337) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 11:10 PM Author: Byong-Woon Jun (bwjun@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Ethical inconsistency in GIS Ethics refers to the theory of values that deals with human conduct or practice with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions. The ethics of GIS defines the rules of conduct commonly recognized and practiced in GIS research. It is accepted by post-positivist critics that there is ethical incosistency in GIS. Curry argues that GIS developers have adopted differing and even conflicting stances toward various ethical issues (see Curry, M.R., 1993, "GISs and the inevitability of ethical inconsistency", in Representation in an Electronic Age: Geography, GIS and Democracy). He states "GIS developers and users adopt conflicting views of what an ethical statement is; they adopt conflicting views of the nature of ethical standards; and they apply to themselves standards which they do not apply to others". Curry concludes that ethical inconsistencies are inevitable in most GIS applications because of the utilitarian concept. Therefore, those who depend on GIS for guidance on policy issues will find themselves with a variety of conflicting answers. By the way, are there other ethical yardsticks in GIS beyond a narrow concern with accuracy or utility? Jun (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2384) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 30, 1998 07:01 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Motive Hey Jun, The other ethical yard-stick you are referring to might be motive (or is this what you mean by utility?). I the motive behind a GIS analysis is to locate and marginalize a group of people, this could be perceived as unethical. There is a case where a medical insurance company conducted an analysis to identify the densenst populations of HIV-positive individuals. The purpose was to identify an area where insurance premiums would be raised or applications for coverage would be rejected. One could argue that the insurance company has the right to protect its interests in this way, after all, its costly or impossible to get hurricane insurance for a house on a barrier island. Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2428) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 26, 1998 01:19 PM Author: Bill Moseley (wmoseley@uga.edu) Subject: History, Technology and GIS On the second page of the white paper, in the first paragraph under "UCGIS" approach, I propose that UCGIS explicitly add the field of "history" to the list of expertises (even though this genrally falls under the category of social sciences). Why? No, I am not a historian. Nonetheless, I am aware that the discipline of history has spent a lot of time looking at the interplay between society and technological change. The basic questions are very similar to ones posed in this white paper: does technology drive social change or does society produce the technology that allows it to change. History has shown that some inventions have sat on the shelf for decades because society was not ready for them. In other instances, society uses a technology to a very different end than we might expect. For example, when labor saving technologies were introduced into American households in the 1950s (e.g. vacuum cleaners), American women actually ended up spending more, rather than less, time cleaning the house (because society upped the cleanliness standards to keep women in the home). Cheers, Bill (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2260) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 27, 1998 07:21 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: interdisciplinary Hey Bill, Another suggestion is to use the word 'interdisciplinary,' and that would include the whole range of disciplines having some part in GIS and societal perspectives. I agree that history needs to be included. Especially with regard to time and representations of temporal data....this is the stuff of history. History is the other discipline that has something to do with everything (although one could argue this for any discipline) because, just as everything has to occur in some place/space, everything must also occur at some time. ...but there again, if UCGIS is truly interested in interdisciplinary perspectives, the word could be use more clearly and more often in these White Papers. Zarabanda! Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2283) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: November 01, 1998 06:34 PM Author: Kirsten McDade (mcdadek@ccmail.orst.edu) Subject: speaking of interdisciplinary... In many subjects, inluding GIS, people talk about how we need to take an interdisciplinary approach; how we need to include a variety of peoples and a variety of fields to enrich the subject in mention. For example, old school ecologists study one species while new school ecologists study ecosystems. I imagine this is similar to the general evolution in GIS. My point is, though, like in ecology, I don't really see this interdisciplinary approach occurring. (There's a lot of talk and little progression). We seem to realize the potential but are unsure about how to grasp it and to successfully fuse it all together. Actually bringing the SOCIETY into GIS would be a true start. Kirsten (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2484) ------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: November 02, 1998 06:29 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: excellent point! Truly, one does here a lot of talk about interdisciplinary communications these days, but we don't see very much of it in practice. Our system of education has been overcompartmentalized for so long that it will take decades to actually bring interdiscplinary thinking into mainstream conciousness. This GIS and society thing is rather the same - I'm reading a fair amount of resistance in the postings. Especially for those who believe GIS is merely a tool, the stance seems to be that society will use GIS for whatever purpose it sees fit, and the role of GIS people is just to provide the service/fill the demand. So, the anthropologists use GIS for their purposes, and the ecologists for theirs, and so on - at it's up to the GIS developers to sort through all the varying and conflicting needs. Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2485) -------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: November 02, 1998 07:31 PM Author: Dawn Wright (dawn@dusk.geo.orst.edu) > This GIS > and society thing is rather the same - I'm > reading a fair amount of resistance in the > postings. Especially for those who believe GIS > is merely a tool, Aha! I knew sooner or later that I'd get to bring this up! Here is an article written by a group of GIS "technocists" trying to build bridges with the "other side," our colleagues in the social sciences and philosophy of science: Demystifying the persistent ambiguity of GIS as "tool" vs. "science" Kazi kazi, Dawn (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2514) --------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: November 03, 1998 09:45 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: domo origato (sp.) Hey Dawn, "The third position, "the science of GIS" is concerned with the analysis of the fundamental issues raised by the use of GIS in geography or any other discipline. As noted earlier, these issues may not be unique to GIS, but rather are remotivated by it; many of them continue to be regarded as problems in cartography or surveying or spatial cognition. A department taking this position with regard to specialization in GIS would recognize it as a substantive research field on par with other such fields and would measure progress based on the accumulation of research results and contributions to human understanding, rather than from improvements in the tools themselves. This position is therefore the only sufficient grounds on which "doing GIS" is "doing science," and the only sufficient grounds for legitimacy as a research field in the academy." This comes from the paper you offered as a reference, of course. This evaluation of the differing opinions as to GIS as a tool and GIS as a science encapsulates the value of GIS to geography. GIS helps geography's position within academics, and strengthens geography's rightful place as a legitimate discipline. Thinking of GIS as a tool, and only a tool, and thereby not taking responsibility for the actions of the tool users, is the first step in relegating GIS to the votechs. Remember what happened to geography in the 1950s? In K-12 geography was lumped into what we now know as the social sciences, whereby it was expected that geography would be taught within history, political science, and the rest of the diciplines that survived the crunch. This decision has damaged the position of geography ever since, and is probably the main reason we all have so much trouble explaining what it is we do, the interdisciplinary nature of geography, and the value of a geographic education in the workplace. Just yesterday myself and a group of other graduate students met with the dean of the graduate school here at UGA (Gordon Patel). The dean is a molecular biologist by training. He asked that we go around the table and introduce ourselves, and say a few words about our areas of research. I explained that I'm a biogeographer, and that I'm interested in human-environmental interaction, and that my research area is invasive species. I went on to explain that my dissertation will be in vegetation floodplain interations between the invasive species Chinese privet and the Oconee River floodplain. The dean looked surprised, and turned to me to say, "and your a geographer?" For the rest of the meeting, whenever the dean mentioned liberal arts education, the humanities, and social science, he referred to me by way of example. It was clear to me that, in the eyes of a man who feels he comes from the "hard sciences," geography is not looked upon as much of a science. Thinking of GIS as a science IS "the only sufficient grounds on which "doing GIS" is "doing science," and the only sufficient grounds for legitimacy as a research field in the academy." kaendeni kazini, (get to work), kaendeni kuchagulisha! (Get out there and vote!) Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2515) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 27, 1998 08:14 PM Author: James Nichols (jnichols@extension.umn.edu) Subject: Technical Limitations/Liabilities One area I'd like to see some discussion on is how the available technology (and technical expertise) influences what type of GIS work is being done. Are there some currant research examples related to how end-users of commonly available software packages may ignore important analysis because it is too hard or not possible to do in that specific package? Are people relying too heavily on one specific tool due to lack of time, money, knowledge or awareness? In what ways are technical issues misdirecting analysis, and what are some approaches to prevent such situations? (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2318) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 27, 1998 10:47 PM Author: larissa scott (scottlar@ucs.orst.edu) Subject: Need for an Ethical Code of Conduct? Ronald Ward, you asked the questions "are there uses of GIS which are wrong?" My response is yes. There will always be ways that people can misuse information and technology. However, I feel that it not up to society to regulate everything that some devious person can figure out a way to misuse. If we implemented an ethical code of conduct governing GIS use, would it help deter the devious users? I don't think it would. Or maybe I just don't understand how it would work. Thoughts, Lara Scott (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2322) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 27, 1998 11:19 PM Author: Dawn Wright (dawn@dusk.geo.orst.edu) Subject: Ethical Conduct The questions and comments posted regarding ethical use of GIS are most interesting. Here is a paper by Harlan Onsrud at the U. of Maine that should be helpful: Onsrud, H. J. 1995. Identifying unethical conduct in the use of GIS. Cart. and GIS 22(1). Dawn (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2323) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 06:06 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: thoughts Lara, I agree - I doubt that an ethical code of conduct for appropriate use of GIS would deter people who are bent on unethical use of GIS from doing what they are going to do - such is the downside of democracy. So, what would be achieved by constructing an ethical code of GIS conduct? If the majority of GIS users and developers decide that a current use of GIS is unethical, and by compiling a set of these opinions we can arrive at such a code of conduct, the effect would be to say that most of us do not approve of these unethical applications. Then when some reprobate out there uses GIS for some questionable purpose, at least they would know that the rest of us do not approve. I guess that kind of thinking assumes that the questionable user would have a conscience, which may or may not be true...but to say that "these folks are going use GIS for unethical reasons no matter what we do," and leave it at that is borderline condoning these activities. Inaction could lead to a proliferation of "everyone does it so why shouldn't I" attitudes among GIS users. Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2326) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 07:10 AM Author: Kurt L. Johnson (Kurtljohnson@worldnet.att.net) Subject: back to GIS Police I agree with you larissa. Regardless of the technology, issues of abuse and misuse are always present. I don't think GIS can be immune to these issues nor do I think its in society's best interest(or GIS) that we try to control its application. If any act of policing should occur, perhaps it needs to be where the data is distributed. If we spend vast amounts of time and money controlling GIS we'll stifle its creativity. The bottom line to all of this is, responsibility and accountability. Two principles that are all but vanished in today's world. I think many of us, both techies and academics, have genuine interests in using and advancing the good and proper use of GIS. Any end product resulting from this approach will stand for itself and the unintended (unforseen) mistakes are part of the learning process. Budgets are a fudamental aspect of life: Every living creature on earth has to deal with one in some shape or form. Here again is the individuals responsibily not to abuse the resources. I have yet to meet a GIS user that speaks of money prior to the application. Instead of focusing on the ill-nature of some, we need to promote GIS to the public. The best way to accomplish this is through education and application to society's everyday problems. This is an opportunity to promote by example and if its techie or academically based, our work should advance the benefits GIS can provide. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2330) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 29, 1998 10:40 AM Author: Peter Henschel (hens0045@tc.umn.edu) Kurt, I think you give a good statement in your last paragraph about educating the public about GIS. A large number of the population does not understand what GIS is and how it can be used. By educating people about GIS they can become aware of the issues that are being discussed in this white paper. GIS plays a role on their life if they know it or not and how this plays a role should be controlled by society. If people are misusing GIS, the public should be aware of it and understand how it is being misused. How can society control the misuse of GIS if so many people don't understand what GIS is? Pete (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2394) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 02:48 PM Author: Jason Seifert (seifert@nws.gov) Subject: ethical codes are already in place Does a surgeon fall under an ethical code of conduct specific to scalpels? Does a police officer refer to an ethical code of conduct specific to pistols? GIS is a tool. I don't think there should be an ethical code of conduct regarding its use in and of itself. Every discipline which utilizes this tool has some sort ethical framework (real or implied) which should serve as a minimum standard of ethical behavior. This is not to say that ethics is not a real concern to the GIS "community". GIS practitioners should be able to take ethical issues surrounding GIS and fold them into the ethical codes of conduct of their respective disciplines. Is this a cop out or does GIS deserve its own Ethical Code of Conduct? Jason (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2373) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 29, 1998 01:47 PM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: where are they? Jason, Read through the posting "Ethics in GIS Questionnaire." The cases I put in this questionnaire are taken from actual GIS applications currently in use. I don't believe that all of the cases and applications in the questionnaire are unethical...but surely you will agree that SOME of these applications are not ethical. If this is the case, then where is this ethical code of conduct you refer to as already being in place? begging for participants, Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2413) ------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 30, 1998 12:20 PM Author: Jason Seifert (seifert@nws.gov) Subject: Right here Ron, We can get into a game of semantics here. I don't think there is such a thing as a GIS application. There are political science, military, etc. applications which utilize GISs. I took some time to respond to a few of the issues. I didn't respond to the questionnaire since it seems they seem like personal judgment calls as opposed to a mutual consensus by GIS practitioners. I am not interested in attempting to form a consensus on what GIS practitioners deem ethically standard. 1. Offensive military applications. -is war unethical? I think so, but... the United States celebrates Veteran's Day as a national hoilday. By and large, the technology used in these applications is developed by the military for military purposes and would fall under the codes of military ethics (oxymoronic?) 2. Applications using census data to redistrict political boundaries on behalf of a political party. -a 1985 Supreme Court ruling deemed gerrymandering to be unconstitutional. I think that goes a step further than an ethical code of conduct would. 4. Applications involving identification of high risk areas for certain types of medical insurance coverage. & 5. Applications involving identification of high risk areas for certain types of natural disaster insurance coverage. -insurance underwriter's codes of ethics (see American Society of Chartered Life Underwriters as an example) would pertain to these issues. This is a valid arguement unless you want to go under the supposition that underwriting is an ethically corrupt profession. 6. Marketing applications with the purpose of identifying optimal locations for wholesale/retail businesses to gain a share of an established company's marketing base. -see business practice codes of ethics such as those set forth by the Better Business Bureau. 7. Applications using population census data and generating information for which the public must pay to gain access. -Are these applications provided by a public agency? If that is the case, then a code set forth by the American Society for Public Administration (http://csep.iit.edu/codes/coe/aspa-c.htm) would be relevant. 8. Applications using remotely sensed data of countries which have not given explicit permission to take satellite images. -the United Nations has devloped a Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space (COPUOS)to address these very issues. My argument contends that GIS is a spoke on a wheel and not an entity unto itself. Happy Halloween, Count Jason (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2443) -------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: November 02, 1998 06:46 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: comments Jason, Interesting...so what I'm reading here is that GIS developers merely fulfill a demand...and if that demand is prefaced by a questionable motive, then it's up to other sectors of society to sort out what is ethical and what is not. Your stance seems to be one of "GIS as a technical tool." I'm appealing to the mind of the GIS user. Why should GIS users just and merely analyze what they are told without considering the societal consequences of what they are doing? Sure, other disciplines have ethical codes of conduct that address some of the problems stemming from GIS use...but this seems to me like expecting other areas of society to clean up the problems created by GIS, when the problems could be solved by GIS users before the rest of society has to deal with them. I like some of your analogies about scalpals and whatnot...here's one for you: Should police departments have to plan how to work in an environment of hollow-point bullets...and should the court system have to pass laws against hollow-point bullets? Wouldn't it be easier (and more cost effective in the long-term, if costs, and who pays the costs, are an issue) if the amunition manufactures took responsibility for what they produce and told themselves, simply, making hollow-point bullets is wrong? kazi kubwa, Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2486) --------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*] [Delete*] Date: November 03, 1998 01:20 PM Author: Jason Seifert (seifert@nws.gov) Subject: re: comments Ron, Your point is well made. I agree that it would be easier and more cost effective if ammunition manufacturers took an ethical stand against hollow-point bullets. An ethical standard is a standard arrived at by the majority of people as a minimum expectation of appropriate conduct. The problem arises because ammunition manufacturers and a good number of their patrons have a different code of ethics than the general populus. Making hollow point bullets illegal might be the best and only option. How does this relate to the unethical use of GIS? I fall into the "GIS as a tool" camp. A GIS user has a responsibility to their respective discipline (and society) to conduct themselves in an ethical manner. A GIS user doesn't exist in a vacuum apart from their discipline. There is a commonality among GIS users, but I find the differences between objectives of GIS applications to be greater than the commonality. All ethical codes are general in nature, but I find the range of GIS applications to be too large for even the most general code of ethics to be useful. Everybody has, whether they were aware of it or not, operated a GIS. They may not have had all of the bells and whistles that are associated with GISs today, but they function in essentially the same way. Do we want to enact a society-wide code of ethics? or Do we want to make the scope of our codes a bit narrower so people are able to apply them to specific situations (ie their respective disciplines)?? Jason (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2522) ---------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*] [Move*][Delete*] Date: November 05, 1998 04:53 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: of course! Jason, Thank you for your thoughtful reply! Your question is, how does the bullet analogy fit into the ethics of GIS? I believe it would be easier on society if people took a little more responsibility for their own actions. Laws, by and large, are enacted because a few reprobates out there engage in activities that the majority of society doesn't approve of. In some cases, unethical activity goes on because the activity is not illegal, and thus, falls into a gray area where the persons engaging in the unethical activity can say...'too bad if you don't like it, it's not illegal," to the rest of society. An ethical code of conduct in GIS would not be enforcable across the board - no code of conduct is (just look at the laywers!). The purpose of a code of conduct is to send the message that the majority of persons using GIS believe a specific set of activities to be unethical, and nothing more. In this way a code of conduct is an appeal to the conscience...and as you've said, other sectors of society are in place to do the enforcing. The thing is, in GIS we have yet to send the message. Several authors (Curry, Pickles, Sheppard, Miller...)have identified ethical inconsistancies in the use of GIS. Other authors (Onsrud, Miller) have identified the need to collect opinions of the ethics of GIS so that a consensus on unethical applications can be arrived at. All this has to take place before the message can be sent. "Do we want to enact a society-wide code of ethics? or Do we want to make the scope of our codes a bit narrower so people are able to apply them to specific situations (ie their respective disciplines)??" A society wide code of ethics is no more possible in GIS than any other discipline, this is not what we are in need of. What your saying here it exactly the case. We need to collect the opinions so that we can define a specific, narrow code within our 'respectable' discipline. It could be that the results will show there is no need for a code of GIS ethics - but we should take a look at the opinions regarding ethics before we assume as much. sorry for the play on words, Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2577) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: November 05, 1998 02:48 PM Author: Molly McCormick (mmccormi@oce.orst.edu) Subject: more GIS and ethics I, too, don't think that there should be a concrete ethical code of conduct regarding use of GIS. There are certainly ways in which it should not be used but - as several people have already pointed out - an ethics code won't be much of a deterant to those folks who want to abuse the technology. An ethics code seems to me to be a form of censorship which opens up a whole new kettle of fish. There are definitely things that should be censored in certain places - but if you start using it in areas that are open forums to ideas, then they are no longer places that let the mind explore new territory freely and openly. Censorship is a scary concept. Once started who will guide it and where will it end? GIS should be a technological tool that is open to anyone to explore and use. That is the only way that it can grow into its fullest capabilities. I think that most GIS practitioners will use their own set of personal ethics when using this tool - without having a written code hanging over their heads. Molly Mc (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2593) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 07:14 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Marginalization In our discussion of distributed computing we had some interesting threads about the use (or lack thereof) of GIS in less developed countries. I don't want to revisit that discussion per se, but extend on it. We all agree that less developed countries are further marginalized by lack of access to GIS - so that's a given (or is it?). Let's talk about some of the dynamics of the problem... Now GIS is in the hands of the developed countries, and most applications of GIS in less developed settings are directed by development workers from more developed countries. What implications does this situation have for development work in general? Are attitudes among those directing the use of GIS in less developed settings tainting the effectiveness of GIS as a problem solving tool? ...and some solutions. Many ecologists and biologists want to work in Madagascar (mostly because of the unique flora and fauna of the island, which constitute a biodiversity hot-spot). The Malagassy government requires that any research project carried out on the island must include funding for a Malagassy national to study abroad in the home country of the researcher. I've met one of the beneficieries of this program, a gentleman by the name of Pascal. I met Pascal in an intro to GIS course, wherein he told me about the program, and about his plans to go back to Madagascar and develop a GIS to monitor populations changes in groups of insects resulting from ongoing loss of montane forests. The language used in the White Paper is unnecessarily nebulous with regard to marginalization of different groups without access to GIS. The research priorities could include specific language and directives to ease increasing marginalization of less developed countries. A heading in the White Paper reads, "Importance to National Research Needs," - an additional section could read, "Addressing the Problem of GIS as an Instrument Marginalizing Less Developed Countries." Scholorly brutality is always welcome, Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2332) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 07:40 AM Author: Bill Moseley (wmoseley@uga.edu) Subject: Marginalization Ron: I think there should be a quid pro quo arrangement. In return for cooperating in the collection of information, I think the "South" should have free access to GIS technology and training opportunities. Cheers, Bill (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2338) ------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 08:50 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Mutually beneficial Bill, The arrangement you describe is mutually beneficial, and the thinking behind the example is long-term. How can this kind of thinking be brought into the private sector? I remember Coca-cola in East Africa...under the pretense of supplying jobs Coca-cola gets tax breaks and what not from East African governments. I'd like to see a situation where a number of African students receive study abroad funding, in business admin or marketing or whatever, for every set amount of profit generated by sales in the African country. Where GIS marketing strategies are applied to less developed countries, less developed governments should direct that the analyses be undertaken in-country, and host country nationals should be trained in GIS while working through the GIS development process with the corporate expatriot. Of course, such shared-knowledge directives would raise marketing research costs, and discourage investment in less developed countries. There are too many choices out there - if less developed governments were to show some solidarity on these matters, the multi-nationals wouldn't have a choice if they wanted to get into those markets at all. To what extent are GIS software companies active in less developed countries? Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2343) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 08:51 AM Author: chris watson (watsonce@arches.uga.edu) Subject: short vs long term thinking The following statements were culled from the preceding comments... 1) Will commercial (short-term) thinking guide the development of GIS? 2) The best way to promote GIS to the public is through education and application to society's everyday problems. 3) Many useful analyses are useful in a low tech environment. There are at least two issues here, I think. First, how will GIS technology develop, i.e. to meet short-term (primarily profit driven) goals, or long-term social- environmental goals? Second, how can/are societal problems being addressed with the current GIS technology? In answer to the second question, there are some interesting things happening, especially at the grassroots level. A number of small, regional conservation organizations are using GIS and principles of conservation biology to design conservation reserve proposals. These, in turn, are being used to petition the government for things like wolf reintroductions in Maine and the Adirondaks, and Grizzly bear reintroductions in the northern and southern rockies. I have been told by several people involved in these debates that the grassroots conservationists (working with shoestring budgets) have been producing more sophisticated and scientifically rigorous GIS analyses than have the government land management agencies themselves, and that furthermore these analyses are slowly having an impact on how these agencies operate, by questioning policy and framing debate. These are politically contentious issues dealing with social values that GIS can do little to "solve". My point is that these developments demonstrate at least the possibilities for the democratization of the technology and the empowerment of "marginalized" social groups. With regard to the first issue (technology development and short vs long term thinking), Ron is probably right about the profit/growth motive, and the short-term thinking associated with it, having the greatest impact on the direction of GIS in the forseeable future. However, there are at least two "research areas" where GIS applications with long-term thinking might be expected. The first is in the area of public policy and planning. With regard to impending global social problems (e.g. growing population and shrinking food supplies, migration/immigration, allocation of diminishing water resources, global warming/ozone depletion, loss of biodiversity, etc.), planners and policy makers should be motivated to think (and apply GIS) within a much larger time frame than does the corporate world. The second area where this should be expected to occur is in the military. The difference is that whereas policy makers might only apply GIS to addressing long-term problems, the military has the resources to develop new tech nologies. The ethical implications are potentially (though not necessarily) frightening, as Ron pointed out. However in both areas, the military and public policy, GIS use is primarily of social, rather than commercial interest. Just a few long winded thoughts. Chris (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2344) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 10:05 AM Author: Anne Vendeloekke Olsen (asvenge@hotmail.com) Subject: Public Participation The White paper asks: "...how a broader effective use of GIS by the general public and by community and grassroots groups can be attained." I'm having problems in understanding this wide spread use of GIS to "the general public". What is the idea? Should every family have its home-GIS on their personal computer? And find out what? The shortest distance to granmothers house? I am having difficulties in just describing what a GIS is, to people that don't work in the GIS-sphere. What will "the general public", your neighbour, gain from GIS and how? Anne. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2355) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 12:57 PM Author: Aaron Timbo (timb0002@tc.umn.edu) Subject: Public Participation GIS Determining how the "general public" might use GIS enters the realm of Public Participation GIS. This burgeoning perspective involves increasing the knowledge and use of GIS at the community or neighborhood level. Communities could do all of the things which are being done on larger scales. They could monitor sources of pollution, determine where conservation projects are necessary or find ideal locations for community projects. GIS's would allow groups to lobby more effectively for resources from local, state and federal governments. Of course, use of GIS at this level would be fraught with the same complications which plague its use on larger scales. Controlling access to data, funding, management and maintenance of the systems are complicated issues communities would have to mitigate. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2367) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 29, 1998 08:28 PM Author: Jay Raiford (jraifor@lsu.edu) Subject: House hunting I realize not everyone is moving but I ran into an interesting site while house hunting in Missoula, Montana. Pick and area then price and it takes you to a very nice GIS interface map. I assume it is MapObjects, says it is an ESRI product. Thought it was a really cool site and a good example of GIS use for us common folks. http://www.realtorads.com/missoula/nbregion.htm (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2422) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 29, 1998 08:31 PM Author: Jay Raiford (jraifor@lsu.edu) Subject: House hunting I realize not everyone is moving but I ran into an interesting site while house hunting in Missoula, Montana. Pick and area then price and it takes you to a very nice GIS interface map. I assume it is MapObjects, says it is an ESRI product. Thought it was a really cool site and a good example of GIS use for us common folks. http://www.realtorads.com/missoula/nbregion.htm (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2423) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 29, 1998 08:33 PM Author: Jay Raiford (jraifor@lsu.edu) Subject: House hunting I realize not everyone is moving but I ran into an interesting site while house hunting in Missoula, Montana. Pick and area then price and it takes you to a very nice GIS interface map. I assume it is MapObjects, says it is an ESRI product. Thought it was a really cool site and a good example of GIS use for us common folks. http://www.realtorads.com/missoula/nbregion.htm (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2424) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 29, 1998 08:34 PM Author: Jay Raiford (jraifor@lsu.edu) Subject: House hunting I realize not everyone is moving but I ran into an interesting site while house hunting in Missoula, Montana. Pick and area then price and it takes you to a very nice GIS interface map. I assume it is MapObjects, says it is an ESRI product. Thought it was a really cool site and a good example of GIS use for us common folks. http://www.realtorads.com/missoula/nbregion.htm (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2425) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 11:55 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Ethics of GIS Questionnaire Hello folks, After the Onsrud (1995) article cited by Dawn: *The purpose of this questionnaire is to solicit the opinions of GIS users and graduate students studying GIS to compile some baseline data about what can be considered unethical applications of geographic information systems. Please reply within the questionnaire thread by clicking the reply option, entering your responses in the posting window, then posting your responses into the ethics of GIS questionnaire thread. For each of the three scenarios please answer yes if you believe the GIS application to be unethical and no if you believe the application is ethical. Following each yes or no response please include some brief comments on what factors lead you to your conclusion. Following the three scenarios is a list of general GIS applications. Please type in the number of each application and enter a yes if you believe the application to be unethical and a no if you believe the application to be ethical. I'll be compiling your responses into a spreadsheet, then I'll analyze the data by means of multidimensional scaling (a statistical test of differing opinions). Your participation is greatly appreciated.* Scenario 1 - geodemographic application A national supermarket chain hires a GIS analysis firm to analyze the market base around several retail stores. The types of information desired by the supermarket executives include mostly social demographic characters, such as age, income, and ethnic background. The executives' final goal in hiring the GIS firm is to obtain a map showing the extent of the market base for each store and the mean age, income, and ethnic background of customers traveling to each store. The executives will use this information to make decisions about what types of items should and should not be stocked at each store. The GIS firm chooses to gather this data by compiling a list of license plate numbers of the customers' cars parked outside each store, then cross referencing the addresses obtained from the license plates with current block level U.S. census data. Is the conduct of the GIS firm unethical - yes or no? Comments: Scenario 2 - governmental policy application A five-county area of the United States is in desperate need of a new landfill. The governmental agency hires an outside GIS firm to find an optimal location for the new landfill. Among other critical factors such as substrate, depth of water table, and distance from major population centers, the GIS firm has been asked to consider mean household income of the locations in question. The governmental agency has stated that income is a necessary factor of the analysis because areas with mean household incomes greater than $50,000 will have strong political networks which would stop construction of a landfill in their community. The agency sees the need for a new landfill as so critical that it does not want to become mired in community opposition to the landfill's final location. The GIS firm carries out the analysis as directed by the governmental agency. Is the conduct of the GIS firm unethical - yes or no? Comments: Scenario 3 - applications in less developed countries The government of a less developed nation has determined that population estimates obtained by means of a door-to-door census are inadequate. The government of this country has deemed population estimates of cities and regions as critical to making decisions about allocating limited development funds. A loan is obtained from the IMF for use as payment for a population analysis conducted by a GIS firm based in a more developed country. The GIS firm will use remote sensing techniques to count numbers of certain building types, assuming a certain number of people for each building type, in satellite images. Ground sampling for assumptions about the number of people per building type was conducted in and around the major city in the country, and the margin of error for the analysis is stated as ± 20%. The GIS firm receives payment in full and undertakes the population analysis. Is the conduct of the GIS firm unethical - yes or no? Comments: *For the following GIS applications, please state whether or not you think the application is unethical by typing the number of the application and typing yes (the application is unethical) or no (the application is not unethical).* 1. Offensive military applications. 2. Applications using census data to redistrict political boundaries on behalf of a political party. 3. Applications involving corporate exchange of residential addresses (without permission of the addressees) for advertising purposes. 4. Applications involving identification of high risk areas for certain types of medical insurance coverage. 5. Applications involving identification of high risk areas for certain types of natural disaster insurance coverage. 6. Marketing applications with the purpose of identifying optimal locations for wholesale/retail businesses to gain a share of an established company's marketing base. 7. Applications using population census data and generating information for which the public must pay to gain access. 8. Applications using remotely sensed data of countries which have not given explicit permission to take satellite images. 9. Ecological GIS applications biased toward achieving a political end. 10. Applications including a cost-benefit analysis to establish a priori levels of accuracy. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2361) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 30, 1998 07:14 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: PLEASE TAKE THE TIME! In the article by Onsrud (referenced by Dawn) the author agrees with Curry's observation that there is an inevitable inconsistance regarding ethics in GIS. In this article, Crampton identifies the need to survey opinions on the ethics of GIS. This is what this questionnaire is all about. I'M BEGGING/GROVELING/PLEADING....PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO POST YOUR RESPONSES TO THE ETHICS OF GIS QUESTIONNAIRE! even less dignity than before, Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2431) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 30, 1998 11:21 AM Author: Deana Pennington (penningtond@geo.orst.edu) Subject: questionnaire OK, I'll break down and go first.... Scenario 1. No. That information is public record, and could be obtained in a number of different ways. I do not consider the gathering of public information unethical; it is what is done with that information afterward that I question. In this case, the info is to be used to better meet the needs of the surrounding public, which is certainly ethical. Scenario 2. No. Ditto #1, the GIS firm is not behaving unethically, although I have doubts about the government agency... Scenario 3. No. The data is to be used for an ethical purpose. 1 No 2 No 3 Yes 4 No 5 No 6 Yes 7 No 8 No 9 Yes 10 No (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2440) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: November 05, 1998 12:06 PM Author: Byong-Woon Jun (bwjun@arches.uga.edu) Subject: Re: Questionnaire Hey, Ron. Here is my response. Scenario 1: No. I don't think that the data gathering method is unethical. Scenario 2: No. I do consider the governmental decision makers unethical. Scenario 3: No. There is no reason to consider the GIS firm unethical even though I don't consider the government of a less developed nation ethical. 1. Yes or No 2. Yes 3. Yes 4. No 5. No 6. No 7. Yes or No 8. Yes or No 9. Yes 10. No Good luck to you! Jun (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2591) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: November 08, 1998 05:50 AM Author: Erik Shepard (shepard@uga.edu) Subject: survey Scenario 1: I think that this can be broken down into two parts. I don't think the use of the GIS to construct a geodemographic analysis is unethical. This is a common use of GIS in business. I do think that collecting license plates and obtaining demographic data from the license plates is wrong, but to me this really has nothing to do with GIS. Any sort of industry could collect the same data the same way. Besides which, I doubt that any GIS firm would use this mechanism to collect data. It is far too time intensive - they would just use some population projections. Scenario 2: Again, no I don't think this is unethical. The contractor specified the parameters of the contract, not the GIS firm. Besides which, it will wind up being the contractor who is sued by civil rights groups... Scenario 3: Again, no. I do think the GIS firm has a responsibility to inform of the low accuracy results, but if the country still wants to do it, then the rest is just business. Q1: "Offensive" military applications already has a value attached to it. Individual viewpoints differ on war and military applications. Although I am not a warmonger, I know plenty of people who are and this is an individual value assessment. Q2. Using census data to redistrict political boundaries I believe falls under the category of impinging on well-defined laws of redistricting. So this would be taken care of under the law not under ethics. Q3: Corporate exchange of addresses for advertising purposes goes on daily, and a lot of it is not done by GIS firms. I don't like it, but this certainly isn't a problem with GIS ethics. Q4: High risk areas for medical insurance coverage again gets to legality. I don't think an insurance company could say something like "well he lives in San Francisco, so we're not going to provide medical coverage". I could be wrong. Q5: Assessment of high risk areas for natural disaster coverage has been done for a long, long time and without the use of GIS by using paper maps. I don't personally agree with it but this still does not fall under unethical GIS use. Q6: Marketing applications to identify market share is another common use of GIS. Considering that the last project that I worked on was a GIS to do just this, well.... Q7: Using population census and generating information which is then sold is fine. This is adding value to data and is done by companies such as equifax. No matter if they start with public domain data, the process of adding value costs money and they have a right to charge for that work. Q8: Remotely sensing countries without permissio probably has some dubious legality, but since you could see the same thing if you flew over in a plane, I think it is OK. Besides, this isn't really GIS, this is remote sensing. Q9: The use of GIS for ecological applications toward a political end again has some dubious legality, but I think should be governed by laws not ethics. Q10: Cost-benefit analyses are again frequently done and are a good use of GIS. In summary, I think that ethics and morality are very personal things and belong in the domain of the church not in the government (without indicating my disposition, witness the furor over the abortion topic which is itself largely a morality issue). I think that it is up to the individual to assess the ethical and moral implications of what is being done. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2628) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: November 10, 1998 11:39 AM Author: Bill Moseley (wmoseley@uga.edu) Subject: Survey Response Ron, Here is my response: Scenario 1: Yes. The customers have not given their permission for such information to be collected (this is a privacy issue). Scenario 2: Yes. The government, and the compliant firm who facilitates the process, should not make such decisions based on income level. Take this logic a step further, and one would conclude that we should dump all toxic wastes in developing countries (as Lawrence Summers, former Chief Economist at the World Bank, argued in 1991). This is an environmental justice issue. Scenario 3: No. This assumes that the developing country made the decision (which is somewhat questionable). 1. Too vague 2. Yes 3. Yes 4. Yes 5. No 6. No 7. No 8. Yes 9. Yes 10. I am not sure if I understand this question. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2667) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: November 11, 1998 11:15 AM Author: Gerry Daumiller (gerry@nris.state.mt.us) Subject: Ethics of GIS Questionnaire Scenario 1 - yes The GIS firm and the retail chain should agree on the methodology before the contract is signed. The client might have been expecting the customers would be interviewed. Scenario 2 - no This is a hard one. If the income criteria are publically known before the analysis is paid for, then this is ethical. If the criteria are not revealed until the report is released, then the ethics are questionable. If the income criteria are never revealed to the public, then it is not ethical. Can ethics be relative? The GIS firm is being ethical to its client, but not necessarily ethical to the community. Scenario 3 - yes The ground sample needs to be more representative, and the IMF was not informed that the margin of error was 20 percent, which they are likely to feel is not acceptable. Applications: 1: it depends: is the victim evil enough? 2: no: each party is entitled to present its proposal 3: yes 4: yes 5: no 6: no 7: no: assuming the public did not pay for the analysis 8: no: assuming the application does not hurt the country 9: yes 10: I don't understand (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2683) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: November 16, 1998 10:09 AM Author: J. David Fuss (dfuss@oce.orst.edu) Subject: questionnaire Sorry this is so late. Scenario 1: The supermarket's demographic study is ethical. I do, however, question the use of license plates by the GIS firm. It seems that a more direct route of questioning with permission, would be better. Scenario 2: The GIS firm in not unethical. I think the 5-county task force, though, is toeing the line of environmental justice. They are deciding for the citizens, rather than giving the citizens the chance to decide for themselves. Scenario 3: The GIS firm is not unethical if the government feels that + or - 20% is an acceptable error rate (it seems high to me). 1. Too vague 2. Yes 3. Yes 4. Yes 5. No 6. No 7. Yes 8. Yes 9. Yes 10. No - (I don't think that cost-benefit analysis is unethical but should be supplemented by other forms of analysis) Good luck, David (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2750) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 08:03 PM Author: Blaine Hackett (hack0086@tc.umn.edu) Subject: Do we want to know? Many people have talked about using GIS ethically as far as good uses and bad uses. I would pose to you that some uses may seem good and turn out bad. One example would be the discharge of substance from feedlots. Many of the corporate farms have the money to conform to regulations. However, if you start imposing some of these on family farmers it may break them. GIS is being used to track contaminants from feedlots. In this instance GIS may have a benefitting affect on the environment but a detrimental affect on farmers. I think this example gets right to the heart of GIS and Society because it is directly affecting someones life. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2380) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 29, 1998 07:39 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: connections Blaine, Your example is all too true, and a lot of this environmental policing does directly affect the livelyhoods of farmers. But to say that farmers being affected by environmental GIS applications is a negative consequence of GIS...I'm not so sure. We all take it in the pocketbook when different aspects of environmental protection become the norm. Pollution control devices raised the price of cars - the costs of scrubbers in coal burning power plant towers are passed along to electricity consumers. If the price of agricultural production rises because of new GIS applications, the consumer will bare the burden as well. The short-term livelyhoods of farmers are not more important than our long-term lives as human beings who are forced to live in an increasingly dirty environment. Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2393) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 28, 1998 10:32 PM Author: Byong-Woon Jun (bwjun@arches.uga.edu) Subject: GIS as a new media for communication GIS technology can be either considered by GIS scientists as a value-free tool for problem solving or castigated by critical social theorists as socially biased technology serving only the corporate and state interests. I think the white paper is based on Habermas's socio-techno dialectics to examine the inter-relationship between GISs and society. The Habermas's socio-techno dialectics addresses two broad questions of the social imbeddedness and impact of GIS. This approach is derived from recognition that GIS is a social technology, not simply a tool. Are these two polarized views enough helpful to understand the complex relationship between GIS and society?. Is there any other view to do this? Daniel Z. Sui argues that GIS is becoming a new media in society to communicate the results of research on various controversial social issues (see "D.Z. Sui's GIS and Society: A tetradic analysis from McLuhan's law of media from GIS/LIS'98 abstract list"). He derives a new conceptual framework from Marshall McLuhan's law of media to understand the non-linear relationship between GIS and social practices. Finally, he argues that we need a shift of our philosophy from viewing GIS as an instrument for problem-solving to viewing it as a socailly constructed media for communication in order to better understand the relationship. Is this approach relevant to the debate of GIS and society? Jun (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2383) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 29, 1998 06:32 PM Author: Robert McMaster (mcmaster@atlas.socsci.umn.edu) The discussions this week have been quite thought-provoking and wide-ranging. I think, Jun, that the white paper is not based exclusively on Habermas' socio-tecno dialetics. The goal was to emphasize the various research paradigms under which these debates have occurred, including (1) critical social theory, (2) institutional, (3) ethical/legal, (4) history of GIS and (5) PPGIS perspectives. Habermas' work would inform several, but not all, of these perspectives. It is useful to bring in that literature I agree. I have been promised that the "revised" white paper on GIS and Society, authored by Greg Elemes, will be on the Minnesota Web site tomorrow. It will be useful for you to see the metamorphosis of ideas from version 1 to version 2. From the north, Bob McMaster (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2421) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 29, 1998 08:37 PM Author: Jay Raiford (jraifor@lsu.edu) Subject: Sorry, program said it wasn't posting! (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2426) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 30, 1998 07:05 AM Author: Ronald William Ward (ronward@arches.uga.edu) Subject: yah...this seems to be a recurring problem! Ron Ward (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2430) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: October 30, 1998 09:06 AM Author: Robert McMaster (mcmaster@atlas.socsci.umn.edu) Subject: GIS and Society II Dear Students: At the Minnesota Web site, you will now find the "revised" GIS and Society white paper, authored by Greg Elmes at the University of West Virginia. Until approved by all on the panel, circulation should probably be restricted to those of us in the Virtual Seminar. It is in PDF format, which will require Acrobat reader. Here is the link Happy reading. From the north, Bob McMaster (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2432) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: November 05, 1998 11:36 AM Author: James Nichols (jnichols@extension.umn.edu) Subject: Differing access to Geographic Information Just though I'd let people know about an article we looked at in our seminar class with Bob McMaster here at MN, an example of different groups having differing access to geographic analysis tools and data. I think it is useful to see examples of the real world application of the tools, data and analysis methods that make up GIS and how they can and do impact people's lives. Unfortunately it is not available on the web... Getting Out the Vote, 90's Style in the October 26, 1998 issue of The Nation. (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2590) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Top][Previous][Next][Print][Reply][Edit*][Move*][Delete*] Date: November 15, 1998 10:36 AM Author: Larissa Scott (scottlar@ucs.orst.edu) Subject: RE: Ethics Questionnaire Ron, Some of the questions in the second part of the questionnaire are hard to answer because they are too vague for yes or no answers. Here are my responses. 1) No. There is nothing unethical about the study, or the use of public information to conduct the study. 2) No. I don't think that the GIS firm is acting unethically by conducting the study. However, I do feel that the goverment would be acting unethically if it were to choose the location of the landfill based on income level. 3) No. It is the responsibility of the GIS firm to report the error involved, but it is the responsibility of the country to decide if the error is acceptable or not. 1) Yes or no, depending on whether or not the application is unethical. 2) No 3) No 4) No 5) No 6) No 7) No 8) No 9) Yes or no, depending on whether or not the GIS firm has included its bias in the study. 10) No (http://forums.library.orst.edu/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=7&Message_ID=2736)